Not signed in (Sign In)

Not signed in

Want to take part in these discussions? Sign in if you have an account, or apply for one below

  • Sign in using OpenID

Site Tag Cloud

2-category 2-category-theory abelian-categories adjoint algebra algebraic algebraic-geometry algebraic-topology analysis analytic-geometry arithmetic arithmetic-geometry book bundles calculus categorical categories category category-theory chern-weil-theory cohesion cohesive-homotopy-type-theory cohomology colimits combinatorics complex complex-geometry computable-mathematics computer-science constructive cosmology deformation-theory descent diagrams differential differential-cohomology differential-equations differential-geometry digraphs duality elliptic-cohomology enriched fibration foundation foundations functional-analysis functor gauge-theory gebra geometric-quantization geometry graph graphs gravity grothendieck group group-theory harmonic-analysis higher higher-algebra higher-category-theory higher-differential-geometry higher-geometry higher-lie-theory higher-topos-theory homological homological-algebra homotopy homotopy-theory homotopy-type-theory index-theory integration integration-theory k-theory lie-theory limits linear linear-algebra locale localization logic mathematics measure-theory modal modal-logic model model-category-theory monad monads monoidal monoidal-category-theory morphism motives motivic-cohomology nforum nlab noncommutative noncommutative-geometry number-theory of operads operator operator-algebra order-theory pages pasting philosophy physics pro-object probability probability-theory quantization quantum quantum-field quantum-field-theory quantum-mechanics quantum-physics quantum-theory question representation representation-theory riemannian-geometry scheme schemes set set-theory sheaf sheaves simplicial space spin-geometry stable-homotopy-theory stack string string-theory superalgebra supergeometry svg symplectic-geometry synthetic-differential-geometry terminology theory topology topos topos-theory tqft type type-theory universal variational-calculus

Vanilla 1.1.10 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to nForum
If you want to take part in these discussions either sign in now (if you have an account), apply for one now (if you don't).
    • CommentRowNumber1.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014

    I mostly wanted to record the correct meaning of this term. Then maybe later I can use this as a reference to fix Wikipedia (^_^). But there's a bit more here too.

    imaginary number

    • CommentRowNumber2.
    • CommentAuthorColin Tan
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014
    Following your meaning of imaginary number, the imaginary part of a complex number is not imaginary. This statement could either be a red herring or be due to the standard definition of "imaginary part" being incorrect.

    Personally, I am of the opinion that the latter is the case.
    • CommentRowNumber3.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014

    Well, definitions are definitions, neither correct nor incorrect except in some “moral” sense (using the term somewhat loosely, but see here for example). I’m not convinced it makes a much difference whether you take the imaginary part of 2+3i2 + 3i to b 33 or 3i3i, but the former is so standard that I think it would be unwise to mess with it (since the advantages if any would be pretty small).

    • CommentRowNumber4.
    • CommentAuthorColin Tan
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014

    Thanks for the reference to Eugenia Cheng’s abstract: I wasn’t aware of her talk.

    A possible ethical reason for defining the imaginary part of 2+3i2+3i as 3i3i would be that taking the real part is a projection of the 1-dimensional complex vector space onto a 1-dimensional real vector subspace. As such, taking the imaginary part should morally also be a projection onto a 1-dimensional real vector subspace. These two projections are part of the data which describes the 1-dimensional complex vector space C as a direct sum of two 1-dimensional real vector subspaces such that the conjugation involutive endomorphism of C is the direct sum of two involutive endomorphisms, one identity and the other being inversion. Furthermore, the almost complex structure on C is the direct sum of two morphisms between these direct summands.

    • CommentRowNumber5.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014

    That imaginary subspace i\mathbb{R}i being isomorphic to \mathbb{R}, I don’ t see how it makes any real difference. Any structure on one transfers across the isomorphism to a structure on the other.

    • CommentRowNumber6.
    • CommentAuthorColin Tan
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014
    • (edited Jun 30th 2014)
    The real and imaginary axes are the conjugation invariant real subspaces of C. The isomorphic between C and two copies of R is as real vector spaces, this forgets the almost complex structure.
    • CommentRowNumber7.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2014

    The isomorphism allows you to transport a structure from one to the other. This will be my last comment on this topic.

    • CommentRowNumber8.
    • CommentAuthorMike Shulman
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2014

    In my experience, Im(2+3i)=3Im(2+3i) = 3 is totally standard.

    • CommentRowNumber9.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2014

    On my understanding, the usual meaning of ‘imaginary part’ is as Todd and Mike said, but actually I think that Colin's is the better (more moral) definition. The usual way relies on the existence of an isomorphism between the real line and the purely imaginary line, but it is only our great good fortune that this isomorphism exists when working with complex numbers. (And even so, we're not as fortunate as we should be, since we have to arbitrarily pick one of 22 equally canonical ones.) But when working with any higher-dimensional kind of hypercomplex numbers (such as the quaternions), we don't even have that option!1 So we really should take the imaginary part of a complex number to be purely imaginary, contrary to the usual definition, just as we do with quaternions. (And that is what people normally do with quaternions; they have to.)

    But that still causes us no problems with terminology: The imaginary part of any hypercomplex number may not be an imaginary number (it usually is, but not when it's 00), but it is a purely imaginary number.

    The adjective ‘purely’ here is an example of a sort of red herring that one might call a degenerate red herring: it is only a red herring in degenerate cases. Another example is ‘homogenous’ in ‘homogeneous polynomial of degree nn’.


    1. Actually, the real numbers are themselves a kind of hypercomplex number in a trivial way, and the imaginary part of any of those is zero, any way you look at it. This works because what we actually need is not an isomorphism from purely imaginary numbers to real numbers but an embedding. Still, the only kinds of hypercomplex numbers where we have such a thing are those of dimension at most 22

    • CommentRowNumber10.
    • CommentAuthorColin Tan
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2014
    Perhaps this question is silly, but instead of "imaginary", why not just say "not real"?

    An attempt at justification from ethics: In analogy to playing Bourbaki by defining "inhabited" to refer to what is traditionally referred to as nonempty, perhaps we are subscribing to a moral (ethical) principle of not defining things by inequalities, so abiding by this principle, we ought to say "not real".

    Though following this principle without exception would mean saying "noninhabited set" to refer to what is traditionally referred to as the empty set. :-)
    • CommentRowNumber11.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2014

    I think that it is the same reason that we say “irrational” instead of “not rational”. For that matter, it is the same reason that we say “inhabited” instead of “not empty”. You seem to have drawn an analogy imaginary : real :: empty : inhabited, but the better analogy is imaginary : real :: inhabited : empty. There are many ways to be imaginary (many positive and many negative imaginary parts) but only one way to be real (one zero imaginary part); there are many ways to be inhabited (many positive cardinalities), but only one way to be empty (one zero cardinality). This is particularly clear in constructive mathematics; a complex number is real if it is not imaginary, but the contrapositive is invalid; a set is empty if it is not inhabited, but the contrapositive is invalid. There is a long tradition in constructive mathematics of inventing words for concepts that are classically negations of familiar concepts, so if we did not historically have the word “imaginary”, then the constructive analysts would have invented it!

    • CommentRowNumber12.
    • CommentAuthorColin Tan
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2014

    A set is inhabited if there exists an element (over this set). A complex number is real if it is invariant under conjugation. A real number is rational if it is a quotient of natural numbers. On the other hand, it seems that empty, imginary and irrational are defined by inequalities.

    So it seems that I believe in the following analogy that inhabited: real: rational :: empty, imaginary :irrational.

    Could you explain further how does having many or one way to define something is related to defining something by an inequality?

    • CommentRowNumber13.
    • CommentAuthorTobyBartels
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2014

    A set is inhabited if its cardinality is positive; this is an inequality. More generally, there are typically many ways that things can be different (any property that distinguishes them renders them different) but only one way to be equal (every property must agree, pace Leibniz). This is only heuristic, of course.

    • CommentRowNumber14.
    • CommentAuthorTodd_Trimble
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2014

    Might we say here that affirmable statements in constructive logic typically correspond to open set conditions? See for example this MO discussion, with extensive commentary by Toby. Thus “imaginary” is an affirmable condition; “real” is not.